dgree03
Apr 6, 02:43 PM
That's what I've gone for, Wifi only. With the wireless hotspot feature of the Nexus S, a 3G version seemed pointless for me.
I thought the same thing, until i bought my 3g Xoom. Then i felt finally freedom! I have a rooted EVO and with my ipad 1 I would tether all the time. Take my phone out, start wireless tether, put my phone back, kill my phone battery.. rinse and repeat.
Now I dont have to kill my phone battery tethering, nor do I have to deal with the hassle of enabling tether on my phone all the time.
I thought the same thing, until i bought my 3g Xoom. Then i felt finally freedom! I have a rooted EVO and with my ipad 1 I would tether all the time. Take my phone out, start wireless tether, put my phone back, kill my phone battery.. rinse and repeat.
Now I dont have to kill my phone battery tethering, nor do I have to deal with the hassle of enabling tether on my phone all the time.
NoSmokingBandit
Aug 21, 03:10 PM
The pic you provided, with the RX7, Supra, etc, as with all the images shown recently from GC10, is of Premium� cars. Can you see in the windows? If so, then it is a Premium� car with a fully modeled interior. If not, they are a Standard� car, and have the dark tinted windows.
That doesnt really make sense though, because in GT4 cars had interiors (even if generic seats) as you can see in this stupidly large screenshot:
http://i28.tinypic.com/2lm7uht.jpg
So Polyphony took the gt4 models, removed the interior, then pasted them into Gt5?
That doesnt really make sense though, because in GT4 cars had interiors (even if generic seats) as you can see in this stupidly large screenshot:
http://i28.tinypic.com/2lm7uht.jpg
So Polyphony took the gt4 models, removed the interior, then pasted them into Gt5?
deedas
Apr 6, 02:10 PM
I didn't go through all the pages of replies, but in case some one hasn't corrected them yet, the bus speed of the 13" is 1066mhz.
Auax
Apr 12, 10:11 PM
It is said that some important features will be achieved on iOS 5. So i will keep waiting and expecting the magic on iPhone 5.
gnasher729
Aug 26, 04:08 PM
I dont see much change really, the 1.66GHz merom chip will find its way into the mini (they'll scrap the solo model).
The 1.83 & 2.00GHz for iMacs (if they use merom) and MacBooks and the 2.16 and 2.33 for the 15 & 17 MBPs respectively. Its that simple.
Only problem with that is that a 2.33 GHz Merom chip will be fifty percent more expensive than a 2.16 GHz Yonah is today. So do you think Apple will increase prices of the MacBook Pro by $150 to $200 or reduce their profit?
The 1.83 & 2.00GHz for iMacs (if they use merom) and MacBooks and the 2.16 and 2.33 for the 15 & 17 MBPs respectively. Its that simple.
Only problem with that is that a 2.33 GHz Merom chip will be fifty percent more expensive than a 2.16 GHz Yonah is today. So do you think Apple will increase prices of the MacBook Pro by $150 to $200 or reduce their profit?
citizenzen
Mar 22, 09:39 PM
The UK and the US have put a freeze on Qaddafi assets three weeks ago.
One small step for man ...
Not resorting to war.
One giant leap for mankind.
One small step for man ...
Not resorting to war.
One giant leap for mankind.
littleman23408
Nov 24, 09:03 AM
Anyone been playing the game yet? I saw on other forums, people got the game yesterday. People called stores around where they lived and some stores already had it out.
jeanlain
Apr 10, 06:56 AM
I don't ever recall Apple ever placing any presence at/during NAB or AES
Phil Schiller showing off final cut pro 4 and DVD sp 2 at NAB 2003 says hello.
Apple was on stage at several NAB. Final Cut Pro itself was introduced there.
Phil Schiller showing off final cut pro 4 and DVD sp 2 at NAB 2003 says hello.
Apple was on stage at several NAB. Final Cut Pro itself was introduced there.
grue
Apr 11, 08:42 PM
Oh, and this is a more minor gripe, btu they need to pull their heads out of their asses and fix their volume licensing program, it's rubbish.
Willis
Jul 28, 09:39 PM
Multimedia, Snowy and Grokgod,
Thanks for the continued thoughts. A store manager said she would be flexible with the 14 day return date, as lnog as I understand that I would pay the restock fee of 10%. What that means to me is I will hold on to this machine until the WWDC and if new model is announced I will return and repurchase, eating the restock fee.( Kind of a pay for usage plan I look at it as.) If no new enhancements are announced with the iMac i guess I will keep mine.
However, there is the thought as one of you have brought up to just reetuen and wait until Sept. when it may be more likely to arrive. A slippery slop0e I know but I am leaning mroe toward a return and repurchase, as a sort of insruance policy of sorts.
I know I can't have my cake and eat it...., but I was looking for insight into how likely an improvement in the iMac is this August.
Thanks again!
Merk850
Update this august... not likely. It will be all pro. Any consumer will be Paris Expo. The imac G5 was launched there. why not a Core 2 Duo iMac?
Thanks for the continued thoughts. A store manager said she would be flexible with the 14 day return date, as lnog as I understand that I would pay the restock fee of 10%. What that means to me is I will hold on to this machine until the WWDC and if new model is announced I will return and repurchase, eating the restock fee.( Kind of a pay for usage plan I look at it as.) If no new enhancements are announced with the iMac i guess I will keep mine.
However, there is the thought as one of you have brought up to just reetuen and wait until Sept. when it may be more likely to arrive. A slippery slop0e I know but I am leaning mroe toward a return and repurchase, as a sort of insruance policy of sorts.
I know I can't have my cake and eat it...., but I was looking for insight into how likely an improvement in the iMac is this August.
Thanks again!
Merk850
Update this august... not likely. It will be all pro. Any consumer will be Paris Expo. The imac G5 was launched there. why not a Core 2 Duo iMac?
aohus
Apr 19, 02:05 PM
Hardly. Samsung would have been fine had they stuck to that original theme, rather than move into Apple's house as a squatter with a subsequent model
Apple can try and patent a grid of icons all they want. It won't fly in court. That Samsung F700 model is very telling, namely that the external candybar style device was used BEFORE the iPhone was even announced in January 2007. In fact, it almost looks as though Apple copied the external 'look and feel' of the Samsung music player.
Apple can try and patent a grid of icons all they want. It won't fly in court. That Samsung F700 model is very telling, namely that the external candybar style device was used BEFORE the iPhone was even announced in January 2007. In fact, it almost looks as though Apple copied the external 'look and feel' of the Samsung music player.
antdfsc
Nov 29, 07:42 AM
Do they get money from every CD player sold? This is lame, I dont see why Apple should share their profits with any music company just because Microsoft was dumb enough to do it... If they let one company make money off of it, whats to stop the rest from wanting a cut?
nickspohn
Apr 25, 04:08 PM
If you notice, Congress has been conspicuously absent since sending off a letter to Steven P. Jobs.
Actually they haven't.
Actually they haven't.
rezenclowd3
Dec 12, 06:05 PM
At least GT6 is already underway. (http://www.1up.com/news/gran-turismo-6-development-underway) (old news, but throwing it out there for those that don't know)
dudemac
Aug 7, 04:05 PM
Features I want:
-iChat screen sharing (awesome idea!) and video effects
-Spaces (finally a Apple OS-level implementation)
-Time Machine (I want a friggin wormhole on my computer!)
I wish they'd show us the Top Secret features.
But seriously, so one even saw Time Machine coming. That was a surprise!
Twitter middot; Facebook
100 million users on Facebook
Sites ofthe facebook logo in
Facebook teams with McAfee
-iChat screen sharing (awesome idea!) and video effects
-Spaces (finally a Apple OS-level implementation)
-Time Machine (I want a friggin wormhole on my computer!)
I wish they'd show us the Top Secret features.
But seriously, so one even saw Time Machine coming. That was a surprise!
daneoni
Aug 26, 04:13 PM
That doesn't make sense, marketing wise. If they do anything to the MacBooks and iMacs they would at least bump their speeds. It doesn't matter f the 2GHz Merom chip is faster than the 2GHz Yonah chip, the consumers don't give a crap about the chip... they want to see "them GHz numbers" go up.
Well unless they use Conroe in iMac thats how it will be. They'll just tell you the new machines are using intel's new Core 2 Duo (64 bit computing) chips. Apple WILL differentiate their pro laptops so the 2.16 & 2.33 GHz combo is a given. Maybe, just maybe, they might bump the mini to 1.83 and 1.66 on its low end. The imacs will use 1.83 & 2.00 there is just no other option apparent to me because the 17" & 20" will also be differentiated. The macbooks may become 2.00GHz only across the board but even that route is questionable.
Well unless they use Conroe in iMac thats how it will be. They'll just tell you the new machines are using intel's new Core 2 Duo (64 bit computing) chips. Apple WILL differentiate their pro laptops so the 2.16 & 2.33 GHz combo is a given. Maybe, just maybe, they might bump the mini to 1.83 and 1.66 on its low end. The imacs will use 1.83 & 2.00 there is just no other option apparent to me because the 17" & 20" will also be differentiated. The macbooks may become 2.00GHz only across the board but even that route is questionable.
wovel
Apr 19, 04:20 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/19/analysis-of-apples-lawsuit-against-samsung-includes-ios-device-sales-numbers/)
http://images.macrumors.com/article/2011/04/19/142014-apple_samsung_lawsuit.jpg
Former Engadget editor Nilay Patel lays out a thorough analysis (http://thisismynext.com/2011/04/19/apple-sues-samsung-analysis/) of Apple's newly-filed lawsuit targeting Samsung (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/18/apple-targets-samsung-with-new-lawsuit-over-galaxy-line/) for allegedly copying the "look and feel" of iOS devices with its "Galaxy" line of smartphones and tablets. Patel offers an excellent look at the overall lawsuit, as well as a claim-by-claim analysis of each of Apple's sixteen claims against Samsung.The entire report is a solid read for those looking to understand more about how Apple is approaching the issue.
Interestingly, the background portion of the lawsuit also provides total sales numbers for various iOS devices "as of March 2011". Comparing those numbers to known sales as of the end of asymco's Horace Dediu has calculated minimum unit shipments (http://www.asymco.com/2011/04/19/review-of-apples-unit-numbers-released-in-legal-filing-prior-to-earnings/) for the various devices during the first quarter of 2011.
In the lawsuit, Apple variously notes that either "as of" or "by" March Apple had sold more than 108 million iPhones, over 60 million iPod touches, and over 19 million iPads.The question becomes whether the implied level of 4.2 million iPads sold during the first quarter of 2011 is an accurate number, in which case Apple's performance would have fallen well below expectations, or simply an understatement by the company.
Apple is set to announce official figures for the quarter at its earnings release (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/18/apple-to-announce-q2-2011-financial-results-on-april-20th/) tomorrow. The release should include specific sales figures for the iPhone and iPad, but Apple generally does not issue specific numbers for the iPod touch, instead reporting total sales for all iPod models and then sometimes breaking out a rough share for the iPod touch or stating the device's growth as a means of highlighting its performance on the earnings conference call.
Article Link: Analysis of Apple's Lawsuit Against Samsung, Includes iOS Device Sales Numbers (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/19/analysis-of-apples-lawsuit-against-samsung-includes-ios-device-sales-numbers/)
Why is it so hard for people to read English. Nowhere does it indicate those are numbers for the first quarter. In fact it is pretty clear it does not actually include the month of March..
http://images.macrumors.com/article/2011/04/19/142014-apple_samsung_lawsuit.jpg
Former Engadget editor Nilay Patel lays out a thorough analysis (http://thisismynext.com/2011/04/19/apple-sues-samsung-analysis/) of Apple's newly-filed lawsuit targeting Samsung (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/18/apple-targets-samsung-with-new-lawsuit-over-galaxy-line/) for allegedly copying the "look and feel" of iOS devices with its "Galaxy" line of smartphones and tablets. Patel offers an excellent look at the overall lawsuit, as well as a claim-by-claim analysis of each of Apple's sixteen claims against Samsung.The entire report is a solid read for those looking to understand more about how Apple is approaching the issue.
Interestingly, the background portion of the lawsuit also provides total sales numbers for various iOS devices "as of March 2011". Comparing those numbers to known sales as of the end of asymco's Horace Dediu has calculated minimum unit shipments (http://www.asymco.com/2011/04/19/review-of-apples-unit-numbers-released-in-legal-filing-prior-to-earnings/) for the various devices during the first quarter of 2011.
In the lawsuit, Apple variously notes that either "as of" or "by" March Apple had sold more than 108 million iPhones, over 60 million iPod touches, and over 19 million iPads.The question becomes whether the implied level of 4.2 million iPads sold during the first quarter of 2011 is an accurate number, in which case Apple's performance would have fallen well below expectations, or simply an understatement by the company.
Apple is set to announce official figures for the quarter at its earnings release (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/18/apple-to-announce-q2-2011-financial-results-on-april-20th/) tomorrow. The release should include specific sales figures for the iPhone and iPad, but Apple generally does not issue specific numbers for the iPod touch, instead reporting total sales for all iPod models and then sometimes breaking out a rough share for the iPod touch or stating the device's growth as a means of highlighting its performance on the earnings conference call.
Article Link: Analysis of Apple's Lawsuit Against Samsung, Includes iOS Device Sales Numbers (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/19/analysis-of-apples-lawsuit-against-samsung-includes-ios-device-sales-numbers/)
Why is it so hard for people to read English. Nowhere does it indicate those are numbers for the first quarter. In fact it is pretty clear it does not actually include the month of March..
acies909
Apr 27, 08:11 AM
This is a lie
Keeping a database of our general location is logging our location. :mad: Does Apple really think this double talk, where they say they keep a database of location but don't log the location is going to fly?
At least our overlord will now, I hope, stop collecting location data when location services are turned off. It's a disgrace that it took a media storm to shame them into action.
The fact is that the iPhone is logging the location of the near by hot spot and cell tower. So if the cell tower is 50 miles away is some instances it is tracking that information not that the GPS location of your phone 50 miles from your phone. If you did the tracking thing on your computer and saw the map with your info, you would notice that some of the dots are places that you probably have never been. When I did and I went up to Northern Michigan it was tracking information approx 60 miles from the road I was on. This is why I never worried about this cause I knew it wasn't actually tracking my iPhones GPS location rather the nearest cell or Wifi location.
Keeping a database of our general location is logging our location. :mad: Does Apple really think this double talk, where they say they keep a database of location but don't log the location is going to fly?
At least our overlord will now, I hope, stop collecting location data when location services are turned off. It's a disgrace that it took a media storm to shame them into action.
The fact is that the iPhone is logging the location of the near by hot spot and cell tower. So if the cell tower is 50 miles away is some instances it is tracking that information not that the GPS location of your phone 50 miles from your phone. If you did the tracking thing on your computer and saw the map with your info, you would notice that some of the dots are places that you probably have never been. When I did and I went up to Northern Michigan it was tracking information approx 60 miles from the road I was on. This is why I never worried about this cause I knew it wasn't actually tracking my iPhones GPS location rather the nearest cell or Wifi location.
jbellanca
Apr 27, 10:13 AM
If locations are recorded AND time/date stamp - then how much time you spend in each location is tracked inherently. If you "log in" at one time here and then another 20 minutes later - there's a history of time spent. Maybe not foolproof... but to say that no information is there isn't accurate.
Not true if what people are saying is true about every location only has one entry in the DB. The second time you hit the same tower, the old date/time stamp gets updated to the new one, effectively erasing the old one. This practice would leave gaps in the d/t stamp, invalidating whatever data you're trying to deduce about time spent at a location. (i.e., If I go from location A > B > C > D, then the next day revisit B & C, but don't get close to A & D, B & C will update with the new d/t stamp, and using your logic, it would look like I was never at B & C the first time, and just at location A a very long time.)
Not true if what people are saying is true about every location only has one entry in the DB. The second time you hit the same tower, the old date/time stamp gets updated to the new one, effectively erasing the old one. This practice would leave gaps in the d/t stamp, invalidating whatever data you're trying to deduce about time spent at a location. (i.e., If I go from location A > B > C > D, then the next day revisit B & C, but don't get close to A & D, B & C will update with the new d/t stamp, and using your logic, it would look like I was never at B & C the first time, and just at location A a very long time.)
fivepoint
Apr 27, 02:57 PM
EDIT: They probably DO want the controversy to continue! If I was in his shoes I would be eating it up. Every story on a right-wing birther makes the centerists even more alienated from the right.
I think it's definitely a political 'win' for him... that much is for sure. Just one of the many reasons I've been saying to let the issue die for a long time, although I always thought the best way to do it would be for him to just release the damn thing. Then he does it, and this crap happens.
do you even know who generated the PDF? Perhaps the state of Hawaii set up an editable blank form for their use?
Probably someone in Hawaii originally.
could be you 2 are using different version of Illustrator or have different settings on them.
I have only played with Illustrator/ photohop ect but I would not be surprised that it could automatically being doing that when you open the file trying to detected Text and signatures and giving you the ability to remove/move them easily for editing purposes.
Hell I while I was working I scanned in a document and used software to pull of my signature and save it so i could easily attached it to other documents I was emailing out. Mind you some security got embeded in the file when I was putting it on other PDFs.
could be any number of reasons.
Naw, it's far more likely that I'm a liar.
You said you opened the file in Indesign which is what sparked my interest, because that's something you can't technically do. We've already established long ago that you're untrustworthy, so it's fair to be suspicious.
Sure there are. Been designing since before you were born. This file does not have layers. It has objects within one group. A document created in 1961 will have been scanned, possible inadvertently split into sections as it's not even a linked group or even a compound path. MattSepata is correct to some extent, but I doubt it's been OCRed. Just a crappily-made PDF... which hasn't even been security-locked.
Nice try, but no cookie, Sherlock.
WTF are you talking about? I'm not 'trying' anything. You're just pointing out how ignorant and blinded by bias you really are by your attacks on me. I specifically made the post so that someone could explain it to the rest of us, after specifically explaining I thought there was almost certainly a reasonable explanation. You see what you want to see, nothing more. Amazing that anyone ever wonders why conservatives never stay around these parts, your level of debate is at rock bottom. Amusing, but sad as always, Blue.
To help 5P understand: Government can not do anything right, not even scan a document and make a lousy secured PDF :p:p
;) Clearly.
Is there an explanation for why it matters to you and all the birthers who buy into this nonsense? I'd love to know which right-wing website had instructions for birthers wanting to "test" the image in Illustrator. It's pretty obvious you were following some fringe-website instructions. I highly doubt you just "happened" to open it in Illustrator and then do whatever. I mean, you aren't a graphic designer.
Buy into what nonsense? What did I BUY into? I simply asked so that I would know. I guess asking logical questions makes you a raging bible-thumping birther neo con. ;) Also, Inever said I 'happened' top open it in Illustrator. I saw it on Drudge, and thought to myself... 'no way, they wouldn't make that big of a mistake' meaning, give the birthers such obvious ammunition... so I tested it myself. Thanks for pointing out your same sick desire to twist everything I say just like Lee and Blue.
I think it's definitely a political 'win' for him... that much is for sure. Just one of the many reasons I've been saying to let the issue die for a long time, although I always thought the best way to do it would be for him to just release the damn thing. Then he does it, and this crap happens.
do you even know who generated the PDF? Perhaps the state of Hawaii set up an editable blank form for their use?
Probably someone in Hawaii originally.
could be you 2 are using different version of Illustrator or have different settings on them.
I have only played with Illustrator/ photohop ect but I would not be surprised that it could automatically being doing that when you open the file trying to detected Text and signatures and giving you the ability to remove/move them easily for editing purposes.
Hell I while I was working I scanned in a document and used software to pull of my signature and save it so i could easily attached it to other documents I was emailing out. Mind you some security got embeded in the file when I was putting it on other PDFs.
could be any number of reasons.
Naw, it's far more likely that I'm a liar.
You said you opened the file in Indesign which is what sparked my interest, because that's something you can't technically do. We've already established long ago that you're untrustworthy, so it's fair to be suspicious.
Sure there are. Been designing since before you were born. This file does not have layers. It has objects within one group. A document created in 1961 will have been scanned, possible inadvertently split into sections as it's not even a linked group or even a compound path. MattSepata is correct to some extent, but I doubt it's been OCRed. Just a crappily-made PDF... which hasn't even been security-locked.
Nice try, but no cookie, Sherlock.
WTF are you talking about? I'm not 'trying' anything. You're just pointing out how ignorant and blinded by bias you really are by your attacks on me. I specifically made the post so that someone could explain it to the rest of us, after specifically explaining I thought there was almost certainly a reasonable explanation. You see what you want to see, nothing more. Amazing that anyone ever wonders why conservatives never stay around these parts, your level of debate is at rock bottom. Amusing, but sad as always, Blue.
To help 5P understand: Government can not do anything right, not even scan a document and make a lousy secured PDF :p:p
;) Clearly.
Is there an explanation for why it matters to you and all the birthers who buy into this nonsense? I'd love to know which right-wing website had instructions for birthers wanting to "test" the image in Illustrator. It's pretty obvious you were following some fringe-website instructions. I highly doubt you just "happened" to open it in Illustrator and then do whatever. I mean, you aren't a graphic designer.
Buy into what nonsense? What did I BUY into? I simply asked so that I would know. I guess asking logical questions makes you a raging bible-thumping birther neo con. ;) Also, Inever said I 'happened' top open it in Illustrator. I saw it on Drudge, and thought to myself... 'no way, they wouldn't make that big of a mistake' meaning, give the birthers such obvious ammunition... so I tested it myself. Thanks for pointing out your same sick desire to twist everything I say just like Lee and Blue.
Keebler
Apr 6, 08:36 AM
Let me be clear - FCS needs a robust blu-ray authoring feature. We don't live in a wireless world where you can transmit video free over the air. We still put disks in a player to watch and also preserve our video memories.
Not having a good blu-ray authoring feature is a huge problem for Final Cut Studio. Not only does it impact professional wedding video-graphers, but ordinary people who want to put their video on a disk to send to people. I can't just put my video on netflix to have a friend watch it on his ROKU.
I agree. For myself, I'm about to buy an HD camcorder now that my digital8 tape has stopped working. 2 issues confront me: 1. storage space for which I have an 8 TB raid set up and 2. delivery - ATV or iphone/ipod touch/ipad files and/or blu ray for archiving (being a physical copy).
That's fine for me - but what about my clients? What are the normal joe blows out there doing for HD footage? I transfer home movies for folks so having an easier BR workflow within FCS would be nice.
Not having a good blu-ray authoring feature is a huge problem for Final Cut Studio. Not only does it impact professional wedding video-graphers, but ordinary people who want to put their video on a disk to send to people. I can't just put my video on netflix to have a friend watch it on his ROKU.
I agree. For myself, I'm about to buy an HD camcorder now that my digital8 tape has stopped working. 2 issues confront me: 1. storage space for which I have an 8 TB raid set up and 2. delivery - ATV or iphone/ipod touch/ipad files and/or blu ray for archiving (being a physical copy).
That's fine for me - but what about my clients? What are the normal joe blows out there doing for HD footage? I transfer home movies for folks so having an easier BR workflow within FCS would be nice.
toddybody
Apr 19, 02:37 PM
Similarities aside...Samsung cannot be hurting Apple sales as a result of this line. Move on Apple
jll62
Mar 22, 12:53 PM
Blackberry playbook = The IPad 2 killer - you heard it here first.
Look at the specs, their greater or equal to the iPad 2 with the exception of battery life.
The vast majority of consumers won't be basing their tablet purchase on specs.
Look at the specs, their greater or equal to the iPad 2 with the exception of battery life.
The vast majority of consumers won't be basing their tablet purchase on specs.
DCJ001
Mar 26, 07:57 PM
im using snow leopard, will all my documents and apps gone if i upgrade to lion ?
PowerPC (Rosetta) emulation is no longer offered. That means if you have any PowerPC applications they won't be able to run in Mac OS X Lion. You can determine if you are still running PowerPC applications by going into Applications -> Utilities -> System Profiler -> Applications and viewing "By Kind". This will show you which applications you have that are running under PowerPC. Rosetta had already become an optional install in Snow Leopard, and it appears Apple will be removing support for it entirely in Lion.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1104601
PowerPC (Rosetta) emulation is no longer offered. That means if you have any PowerPC applications they won't be able to run in Mac OS X Lion. You can determine if you are still running PowerPC applications by going into Applications -> Utilities -> System Profiler -> Applications and viewing "By Kind". This will show you which applications you have that are running under PowerPC. Rosetta had already become an optional install in Snow Leopard, and it appears Apple will be removing support for it entirely in Lion.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1104601
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